Trigger Warning
Before I get too far into this, let's start with the "I haven't read the books" disclaimer. I have the first two. I want to read them. I just haven't. Which is a whole other interesting thing I should explore some time. But that said, whatever nonsense comes next is just stuff I remember from the show.
Second, check out this article I read from Twitter last night. Credit to Joe for tweeting that out. And, in general, for being a non-confrontational nerd fellow with intelligent discussion topics and an impressive habit of forcing me to stop being so damn hateful. He's good people.
Now, for real, read the article because I'm basing a lot of what follows on that. I read it last night and mulled it over a bit. Put some more thought into it this morning as I laid in bed wishing I didn't have to go to work. Here's what I came up with.
We have two strong female lead characters who, in the books (at least according to this article and a few others I read), also had a strong sense of their own sexual desires. These women want to have sex. And, at least in the case of Cersei, like it. Now I have no idea how either of these characters approach sex throughout the rest of the novels. But that's not so important. What is important is we have two instances of female leads who had a real sexual agency in the books, turned to victims of rape in the TV show.
I shouldn't need to point out this is bad.
The article does a good job of covering the problems with this. I will attempt not to repeat what was said there, though I agree with much of it so expect some overlap, but upon further thought on the matter I wanted to cover a tangent thread:
Women who want to have sex cannot be trusted/meet a terrible end.
So let's exclude the multitude of nameless prostitutes that are paraded out for the sake of putting tits on the screen. But within those ranks, we did have two that made a more prominent impression. Shae and, uh... red-haired prostitute. Both of those women were open about wanting sex, but that viewpoint of "women can like sex and that's OK" is sullied because, well, "whores." It's an obvious issue in the world of Westeros, where women of that trade are looked down upon. The entire end of Shae's arc, assuming she doesn't come back at some point, was that her life was worthless because she was a whore. That the Lannisters, Tyrion excluded of course, considered her expendable. And red-haired prostitute was killed for just such a thing (being an expendable, worthless whore, that is) not too long after achieving some measure of status and riches, (or I would assume, if she was running the brothel for Littlefinger). The word "whore" is thrown around a lot in the show, and regardless of if that's representative of the Westeros culture or not, it beats in the idea that these woman are something less than. Which reinforces our own societal stereotypes on the subject. And while we might understand that these women are prostitutes, it is often that we, as a society, use the term "whore" to shame any woman that chooses to sleep with multiple men. So perhaps there's some subconscious thing happening here where we both associate and dissociate the term with women as either a profession or a descriptor depending on the circumstances. And it all leads to the same potential conclusion that these two supporting characters, who happened to be female and like sex, were less important and less of worth than the other characters, (some of whom happen to be male and like sex).
The same can be said of the two Wildlings. Tonks and, uh... (other) red-haired woman. Both women are cavalier and open about sex. Both women use sex to their advantage. To put men off their guard and get what they want. Which, while in the case of saving Brann, is noble, still reinforces this mancentric idea that women are manipulative bitches.
The same sort of prejudiced viewpoints that worked against Shae and the red-haired prostitute work here, too. Both of these women are Wildlings. Dangerous barbarians, we are told. Brutal savages that live beyond the Wall. Beyond civilization, is the implication. Murderers. Cannibals.
Prejudiced descriptions from the people of Westeros that we are shown, at one point or another, to be true. While the show does give the idea that these prejudices aren't correct all the time, it also shows that a lot of the time they are. Wildlings cannot be trusted. The two Wildling women we've seen are quite open about sex. Is it that far a leap to think that women who are open about, or like, sex cannot be trusted?
The small redemption here is Robb Stark's wife.
As an aside, I could look up the name's of these women, but I have chosen not to do so. I don't remember them. I remember them as I have described them. Their names, and I'll admit this could be a fault of mine just as much as it could be a fault of the show, were never impressed upon me as important.
That, in and of itself, could be an issue. And one, like I said, that could be on me. It might just be that these characters happen to fall into the list of people I don't remember. For instance, I couldn't name a single one of the dudes that travel with Daenerys. But I find it notable that of the handful of women I remember enough to use them to make this point, I remember just one of their names. That seems important.
Back on track, though, Robb Stark's wife... Talisa, I went and looked it up now that I've made the other point... is the one on this list that I can think was forward about wanting to have sex that doesn't have a questionable background. She was a woman with a respectable career, both in Westeros and in our own society, with a commendable moral compass. She was a good woman. She was also viciously murdered for marrying Robb Stark.
Now, sure, that part follows the books. I get that. But the other changes that have been made on the show mean that this is the one woman I can think of who had an obvious sexual desire and saw it through, and whose moral compass or background doesn't stand in obvious question. She is the single exception so far, and she was stabbed in the stomach a dozen times and left to die. I can't remember if she was pregnant, though it does seem that the intent was to kill the child if she was. Another interesting note. Talisa's life wasn't even worth taking. She was just left to bleed to death after it was ensured no heir of the Stark line would live on inside her. Robb appears to die almost immediately after dude stabs him. And Catelyn gets her throat slit, so that is presumably a quick death, too. At the least, in both cases, it was done so that there could be no question the Starks were dead.
Talisa, however, suffers. She's stabbed in the stomach a half dozen or a dozen times and left to bleed out. No one bothers with a definitive kill strike. She's not important enough to expend the energy on. The one woman who dared to want to have sex without being some kind of untrustworthy whore.
This is the thing that bothers me. That of the five women on the TV show who have been given a clear sexual agency, two of them were brutally murdered. Not just killed off, but viciously and painfully made to suffer before they died. Shae was written off, (I think, but perhaps I'm remembering that wrong). And I think Osha was written off, too? She refused to go with Brann beyond the Wall, right? I could be remembering that wrong. But that leaves us just with Ygritte, and she's out murdering innocents.
Once again, I understand that a lot of this is following source material. That's fine. The point I'm making is we have two clear cases where the showrunners, whoever it is within that generic structure, chose to change an instance of consensual sex to an instance of rape. The consequence of that is that the remaining notable female characters who have had consenting sex are either dead, gone, or of a questionable moral background. Whether intended or not, the best message here is that women who want sex are bad. The worst is that women who want sex deserve to be raped (in Cersei's case with Jaime) or killed.
And that's, well, that's not a good message at all.
Before I get too far into this, let's start with the "I haven't read the books" disclaimer. I have the first two. I want to read them. I just haven't. Which is a whole other interesting thing I should explore some time. But that said, whatever nonsense comes next is just stuff I remember from the show.
Second, check out this article I read from Twitter last night. Credit to Joe for tweeting that out. And, in general, for being a non-confrontational nerd fellow with intelligent discussion topics and an impressive habit of forcing me to stop being so damn hateful. He's good people.
Now, for real, read the article because I'm basing a lot of what follows on that. I read it last night and mulled it over a bit. Put some more thought into it this morning as I laid in bed wishing I didn't have to go to work. Here's what I came up with.
We have two strong female lead characters who, in the books (at least according to this article and a few others I read), also had a strong sense of their own sexual desires. These women want to have sex. And, at least in the case of Cersei, like it. Now I have no idea how either of these characters approach sex throughout the rest of the novels. But that's not so important. What is important is we have two instances of female leads who had a real sexual agency in the books, turned to victims of rape in the TV show.
I shouldn't need to point out this is bad.
The article does a good job of covering the problems with this. I will attempt not to repeat what was said there, though I agree with much of it so expect some overlap, but upon further thought on the matter I wanted to cover a tangent thread:
Women who want to have sex cannot be trusted/meet a terrible end.
So let's exclude the multitude of nameless prostitutes that are paraded out for the sake of putting tits on the screen. But within those ranks, we did have two that made a more prominent impression. Shae and, uh... red-haired prostitute. Both of those women were open about wanting sex, but that viewpoint of "women can like sex and that's OK" is sullied because, well, "whores." It's an obvious issue in the world of Westeros, where women of that trade are looked down upon. The entire end of Shae's arc, assuming she doesn't come back at some point, was that her life was worthless because she was a whore. That the Lannisters, Tyrion excluded of course, considered her expendable. And red-haired prostitute was killed for just such a thing (being an expendable, worthless whore, that is) not too long after achieving some measure of status and riches, (or I would assume, if she was running the brothel for Littlefinger). The word "whore" is thrown around a lot in the show, and regardless of if that's representative of the Westeros culture or not, it beats in the idea that these woman are something less than. Which reinforces our own societal stereotypes on the subject. And while we might understand that these women are prostitutes, it is often that we, as a society, use the term "whore" to shame any woman that chooses to sleep with multiple men. So perhaps there's some subconscious thing happening here where we both associate and dissociate the term with women as either a profession or a descriptor depending on the circumstances. And it all leads to the same potential conclusion that these two supporting characters, who happened to be female and like sex, were less important and less of worth than the other characters, (some of whom happen to be male and like sex).
The same can be said of the two Wildlings. Tonks and, uh... (other) red-haired woman. Both women are cavalier and open about sex. Both women use sex to their advantage. To put men off their guard and get what they want. Which, while in the case of saving Brann, is noble, still reinforces this mancentric idea that women are manipulative bitches.
The same sort of prejudiced viewpoints that worked against Shae and the red-haired prostitute work here, too. Both of these women are Wildlings. Dangerous barbarians, we are told. Brutal savages that live beyond the Wall. Beyond civilization, is the implication. Murderers. Cannibals.
Prejudiced descriptions from the people of Westeros that we are shown, at one point or another, to be true. While the show does give the idea that these prejudices aren't correct all the time, it also shows that a lot of the time they are. Wildlings cannot be trusted. The two Wildling women we've seen are quite open about sex. Is it that far a leap to think that women who are open about, or like, sex cannot be trusted?
The small redemption here is Robb Stark's wife.
As an aside, I could look up the name's of these women, but I have chosen not to do so. I don't remember them. I remember them as I have described them. Their names, and I'll admit this could be a fault of mine just as much as it could be a fault of the show, were never impressed upon me as important.
That, in and of itself, could be an issue. And one, like I said, that could be on me. It might just be that these characters happen to fall into the list of people I don't remember. For instance, I couldn't name a single one of the dudes that travel with Daenerys. But I find it notable that of the handful of women I remember enough to use them to make this point, I remember just one of their names. That seems important.
Back on track, though, Robb Stark's wife... Talisa, I went and looked it up now that I've made the other point... is the one on this list that I can think was forward about wanting to have sex that doesn't have a questionable background. She was a woman with a respectable career, both in Westeros and in our own society, with a commendable moral compass. She was a good woman. She was also viciously murdered for marrying Robb Stark.
Now, sure, that part follows the books. I get that. But the other changes that have been made on the show mean that this is the one woman I can think of who had an obvious sexual desire and saw it through, and whose moral compass or background doesn't stand in obvious question. She is the single exception so far, and she was stabbed in the stomach a dozen times and left to die. I can't remember if she was pregnant, though it does seem that the intent was to kill the child if she was. Another interesting note. Talisa's life wasn't even worth taking. She was just left to bleed to death after it was ensured no heir of the Stark line would live on inside her. Robb appears to die almost immediately after dude stabs him. And Catelyn gets her throat slit, so that is presumably a quick death, too. At the least, in both cases, it was done so that there could be no question the Starks were dead.
Talisa, however, suffers. She's stabbed in the stomach a half dozen or a dozen times and left to bleed out. No one bothers with a definitive kill strike. She's not important enough to expend the energy on. The one woman who dared to want to have sex without being some kind of untrustworthy whore.
This is the thing that bothers me. That of the five women on the TV show who have been given a clear sexual agency, two of them were brutally murdered. Not just killed off, but viciously and painfully made to suffer before they died. Shae was written off, (I think, but perhaps I'm remembering that wrong). And I think Osha was written off, too? She refused to go with Brann beyond the Wall, right? I could be remembering that wrong. But that leaves us just with Ygritte, and she's out murdering innocents.
Once again, I understand that a lot of this is following source material. That's fine. The point I'm making is we have two clear cases where the showrunners, whoever it is within that generic structure, chose to change an instance of consensual sex to an instance of rape. The consequence of that is that the remaining notable female characters who have had consenting sex are either dead, gone, or of a questionable moral background. Whether intended or not, the best message here is that women who want sex are bad. The worst is that women who want sex deserve to be raped (in Cersei's case with Jaime) or killed.
And that's, well, that's not a good message at all.
